Talk:Negative Emotions Sensing
Minato a user Shouldn't Minato Namikaze also be labelled a user since like his son Naruto, he mastered the Kurama half inside of him? Steveo920 17:39, March 3, 2014 : Has he ever been shown using it? If so, he's added. If not, nope. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 22:05, March 25, 2014 (UTC) Debut why is its debut chapter 496...when the first time it was shown is chapter 505? --DARK ZER06 (talk) 16:56, October 14, 2014 (UTC) OK sorry my mistake...got my own answer :D --DARK ZER06 (talk) 17:04, October 14, 2014 (UTC) If you want to be super anal about it, debut of this would correlate with Kurama's debut--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 22:14, October 14, 2014 (UTC) well...that could be true in a way too...but debuts are usually about the things shown or spoken or indicated for the first time so...496 is the correct one I guess... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 22:26, October 14, 2014 (UTC) Minato, Round Two Your thoughts on adding Minato as a user?--JO 2017:24, January 13, 2015 (UTC) :I already told you why I added it in your talk page. We've done a similiar thing with Fukai and this, as it was only added 'cause he's the jinchūriki. This is kinda the same reason, just a bit expanded upon, with legitimate claims as to why I added him.--Omojuze (talk) 17:28, January 13, 2015 (UTC) :::He's capable of using it, just like Madara is capable of using the Outer Path — Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique. And we decided to remove him as a user because he never actually used it --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC) ::::Who was the one who decided to remove that? Wasn't it stated that he can use it? This is not a discussion about that jutsu, so let's not get side-tracked. There are plenty of jutsu where we didn't see the person use it, but since we know that the person CAN use it, we list it anyway (Four Symbols Seal for Kushina, Summoning Technique for Kaguya, Hashirama & Tobirama, Ink Spilling for Fukai, etc.)--Omojuze (talk) 17:46, January 13, 2015 (UTC) "Mito was noted to be able to use this skill because of her control over Kurama. While Naruto, even without making peace with the beast, obtained this ability once he got the chakra cloak. Minato has both factors: both the control and the chakra cloth. It would be safe to say that he has this ability.".--Omojuze (talk) 17:48, January 13, 2015 (UTC) :@Omojuze, I know your reasons, but seeing the topic atop this talkpage, I indeed am confused as to whether Minato should be considered as a user of this, just like Fukai with Ink Spilling; because both have never shown using it, nor were stated as capable of such a thing.--JO 2018:24, January 13, 2015 (UTC) ::Yeah, that's what confused me. Then I thought, "hmm.. if we have exception 1. that is backed-up by other exceptions, then this exception is plausible too", something like that >.<--Omojuze (talk) 18:56, January 13, 2015 (UTC) :::We have at least one example where a jinchūriki did not inherit their tailed beast's unique ability (Gaara and Magnet Release, according to Jin no Sho), so by extension there's no proof that Fukai could use Ink Spilling. Minato might be a different case though, since he has control over Kurama's chakra and the same chakra cloak as Naruto, which is known to grant the ability. I'd also question why we list Madara as a user of Rinne Tensei for having the Rinnegan, but we don't do the same for Sasuke. Never mind, we don't anymore.--BeyondRed (talk) 19:19, January 13, 2015 (UTC) New Picture In my opinion this picture fit better --Keeptfighting (talk) 13:38, June 10, 2015 (UTC) :Your picture shows nothing, the current pics are perfectly fine and do not need to be changed. --Sajuuk talk | | Channel 13:40, June 10, 2015 (UTC) Renaming I'm not sure why this ability is called "Negative Emotions Sensing". Was there any other description of it aside of Tobi's words in chapter 545? Because if not, I propose we change the name to "Hostility Sensing", which would be closer to the words Tobi used. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:07, July 29, 2017 (UTC) :I don't think any other description was given to it. The name was taken from the English translation if I remember correctly. Maybe Mito's databook entry mentioned it? But I'm not certain.--Cerez365™ (talk) 23:46, July 29, 2017 (UTC) ::As expected, it doesn't. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:53, July 29, 2017 (UTC) *bump* • Seelentau 愛 議 13:31, July 31, 2017 (UTC) :Not sure how accurate the translation i'm reading is but in chapter 505 Kisame says "Apparently you can detect hatred and other negative emotions." --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:35, July 31, 2017 (UTC) ::Well, he says "You can sense hatred and... evil emotions". • Seelentau 愛 議 14:49, July 31, 2017 (UTC) :::I think the best name would be something using a rather generic term, pinning it all in one emotion seems overly specific. Omnibender - Talk - 20:14, July 31, 2017 (UTC) ::::I'm actually fine with it now. Maybe "Evil Emotions Sensing", but "Negative" is fine by me. I just didn't know about Kisame's words, so thanks for that, Saru. I put the used terminology in the article already. :) • Seelentau 愛 議 21:49, July 31, 2017 (UTC) Minato a user 2 Am I the only one who thinks that it's kinda weird to list Minato among the users and at the same time to put a trivia statement about him never using it? I mean, either we should list Minato without this trivia point or keep the trivia point without listing him as a user. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 11:56, January 1, 2018 (UTC) :I say keep the trivia and remove Minato. Omnibender - Talk - 16:49, January 1, 2018 (UTC) But if naruto immediately got the ability to sense negative emotions when he first entered KCM mode, I don't see why minato wouldn't have it Kingomanoki (talk) 21:03, January 1, 2018 (UTC) :Mito is known to have had this, but not known to have used KCM, it's not a one to one situation. Omnibender - Talk - 23:02, January 1, 2018 (UTC) ::It has to have something with using the abilities of kurama, Kushina is the same way, she does not have kcm, and does not have negative emotions sensing. It's more than likely a one to one situation Kingomanoki (talk) 18:12, January 4, 2018 (UTC) :::No one is questioning the ability has to do with Kurama. It's not a one to one because we've seen every combination within the jinchuriki. Naruto showed both KCM and NES, Minato only showed KCM, Mito was only mentioned to have had NES, Kushina showed neither. If I had to guess, the jinchuriki is only able to tap into that specific ability if they themselves conquer their own negative emotions, like Naruto did in the Falls of Truth. Regardless, the spread is enough that we can't claim it's a one to one thing. Omnibender - Talk - 18:28, January 4, 2018 (UTC) ::::So, is everyone okay with removing Minato from the users' list while keeping the remark about him in trivia? Cause if it's yes, then I'll proceed to do that/ Ravenlot 27 (talk) 18:33, January 4, 2018 (UTC) :Remove Minato I say. I agree with Omni, makes sense only Kurama's jinchuuriki who suppress their own negative emotions gain Kurama's ability to sense negative emotions.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 19:11, January 4, 2018 (UTC) Oh my bad, it actually does make sense that the person would need to conquer their NES like how naruto did, never thought of that Kingomanoki (talk) 20:03, January 4, 2018 (UTC) Nue Are we sure Nue uses this? It seems more logical Sumire targeted people she knew were feeling negative. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:01, January 10, 2018 (UTC) Episode 61 Is there a reason y'all assume that he used this ability despite not being in the chakra mode? Like, you see the scene and instead of thinking "oh hey, he wasn't using the chakra mode so it can't be this ability", you think "oh hey, he wasn't using the chakra mode, but it's still this ability because whyever". Just... why? • Seelentau 愛 議 22:49, June 7, 2018 (UTC) :He's only done regular chakra sensing while in Sage Mode, and Mito can use this, despite not being known to have used the chakra mode, so there is a logical way for it to happen. Omnibender - Talk - 22:57, June 7, 2018 (UTC) ::Edit Conflict: :He ain't a sensor, and wasn't in Sage Mode, so that was the only plausible way he could've sensed them. And Mito didn't have access to the Chakra Mode either, dunno where this exclusivity even came about tbh.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 22:58, June 7, 2018 (UTC) ::What Omni said pretty much.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 22:58, June 7, 2018 (UTC) :::But that's bs. The requirement for using this ability, according to the manga, is using the chakra mode. I don't get why people would rather assume that this requirement has changed, instead of looking for a different answer. There's no indication that Naruto sensed chakra in the first place, plus sensing something doesn't mean that the person is a sensor, even Suigetsu was able to sense Naruto's overwhelming chakra. There's no reason to assume that this was different, but instead, you guys add something without any logic behind it and I don't understand why. Occam's razor is a thing, after all. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:03, June 7, 2018 (UTC) ::::Then how did Mito use it...????--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 23:05, June 7, 2018 (UTC) :::::I don't know, but what does that have to do with this? All I'm saying is that you guys went an assumptuous road instead of the most logical one. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:09, June 7, 2018 (UTC) ::::::Because your main argument is that "It's exclusive to the Chakra Mode". Well if it is, why isn't Mito listed as a user of the Chakra Mode because that would be the only way for her to access the technique? ::::::The ability might've also been locked to the Chakra Mode while Naruto did not have control over Kurama. Now that he does, he doesn't need the mode no more.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 23:11, June 7, 2018 (UTC) :::::::This is no argument though. There is no proof that Naruto used this ability in the recent episode and plenty proof that he simply noticed them, for whatever reason. :::::::More assumptions. Oh and Mito should be listed as a user of the chakra mode, or is there anything that speaks against it? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:14, June 7, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::It Naruto simply noticed them, there would not be need for the "detecting" animation, that animation is there to indicate some sort of sensing. Mito isn't listed as a user of the chakra mode because she's neither mentioned, nor shown using it. Suigetsu noticing Naruto's chakra from ways away happened only when Naruto actually used his chakra, Momo and Kinshi weren't exerting any particularly powerful jutsu. I think an "in the anime" qualifier could be added if necessary. Omnibender - Talk - 01:27, June 8, 2018 (UTC) :::::::::This animation is often used to show that a character with overwhelming power has appeared. :::::::::Mito is mentioned using this ability, which is unique to the chakra mode, as far as we know. :::::::::See, you yourself put up requirements for Suigetsu's case, so why do you ignore them for Naruto's case? • Seelentau 愛 議 09:01, June 8, 2018 (UTC) I think it's safer to say they simply felt Momo and Kin's chakra once they came in. Shit everyone felt Obito's TTJ chakra once he became a TTJ and most of them weren't even sensors,not to mention that after Kaguya was finished coming back into existence even Sakura felt her chakra. FlatZone (talk) 10:15, June 8, 2018 (UTC) :Non-sensors only sense chakra in general when the strong chakra source actually does something with it, be it flaring up or using jutsu. Momoshiki and Kinshiki did neither, they're just floating, and if this was simply "huge chakra", Naruto would not have been the only one to detect it. Omnibender - Talk - 15:53, June 8, 2018 (UTC) ::I don't believe the sensing ability is limited to the chakra mode since Kurama can use it in his flesh-form. I believe the only limitation to the jutsu is that you need Kuramas Chakra, which is why Naruto initially needed the chakra mode but learned to use it without, as Kuramas Chakra completely fused with Narutos. Another example would be Gaara and his ability to use sand even after losing his Tailed Beast, meaning a Jinchuriki makes the Tailed Beasts abilities their own at some point in their life.--Keeptfighting (talk) 16:33, June 8, 2018 (UTC) So Naruto was able to use this technique without chakra mode to sense Momoshiki arrive, but not to sense his whereabouts in today's episode? I think this pretty much settles it, hm? • Seelentau 愛 議 15:10, June 14, 2018 (UTC) :Except he did. Just before Momoshiki kicks him, he makes an interjection/gasp and turns to the direction of the attack. Him not reacting fast enough doesn't negate that. Omnibender - Talk - 18:54, June 14, 2018 (UTC) ::The difference is that in ep 60, he looked straight up. This time, he looked around first. If he can use this without chakra mode, he would've immediately pinpointed Momoshiki's whereabouts. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:57, June 14, 2018 (UTC) :::Still possible to be about reaction time. Maybe Momo moved too fast. Maybe Naruto is checking if there are other people in danger in the immediate vicinity. I understand that NES out of chakra mode is unusual, but if it was chakra he was sensing, then taking a while to lock on to him also doesn't make sense. Momo might have a lot of chakra, but non-sensors can only pick up on that when the chakra is used/flared up. He had yet to begin using heavy duty jutsu. The only other way I can think how to explain this is that it was Momoshiki's Killing Intent that Naruto picked up (since shinobi in general seem to be able to pick up on that), but that doesn't quite match up either, since Momo's objective at the time is to capture Naruto to harvest his chakra. It also doesn't explain why people only noticed them after Naruto focused on them. Omnibender - Talk - 19:32, June 14, 2018 (UTC) ::::If he sensed Momoshiki with this when he arrived, he must've sensed him when he changed his position as well, since the ability is active all the time. He didn't. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:38, June 14, 2018 (UTC) :::::And if it was chakra sensing, that would also have been the case, it wasn't. Omnibender - Talk - 20:21, June 14, 2018 (UTC) ::::::I never said it was chakra sensing, I was following your logic. Both situations are the exact same: Momoshiki didn't mould chakra, didn't show any malice, nothing. Yet, the first time Naruto noticed his whereabouts, the second time he didn't. If what Naruto did the first time was sensing Momoshiki's evil intentions with this ability, then it must have happened the second time as well, since this ability is automatically active. But it didn't, which is proof that he can't use it without chakra mode. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:29, June 14, 2018 (UTC) :::::::Then I ask what did he use? It was clearly something because they bothered to animate it, but none of the established means of detection fit what was shown. All the means that can fit require some sort of bending of rule or making assumptions or selectively ignoring things. Omnibender - Talk - 20:57, June 14, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::Yes, they animated it. As I said, it's a common trope, the main character suddenly noticing the appearance of the enemy. It's just for tension's sake. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:12, June 14, 2018 (UTC) :It was spider sense... and as we know, spider sense isn't always reliable, happy? There is no reason to overthink this. Maybe he didn't sense chakra, negative emotions or killing intent, maybe he just sensed danger, sixth sense, ya know?--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 21:28, June 14, 2018 (UTC) ::The difference between both scenes is that in the first momoshiki arrives and is.. floathing(?) still, making it easy to pinpoint his position. In the second momoshiki probably moved too fast, so when Naruto tried to follow his movements he got caught off guard.--Keeptfighting (talk) 18:02, June 22, 2018 (UTC)